New prices, 50%-off special offer
From the desk of pieterh
Via the upgrade-while-its-hot department, on 1257617469|%e %B %Y, %H:%M
We've fixed one more major bug in Wikidot.com: our pro accounts are too cheap. Ironically, being much cheaper than other wiki hosting firms means that many people look at Wikidot.com and think, "oh, cheap and unreliable!" So we are applying a simple solution: we're doubling our prices.
A Pro-Lite account now costs $49.90 (€49.90 incl. VAT) for a year, and a Pro-Plus account now costs $239.90 (€239.00 incl. VAT) for a year. You can see the new prices on our plans page.
A 100% increase in prices sounds a lot, but it is modest given how much Wikidot.com has grown over the last year. We are still much cheaper than other wiki hosting providers. To compare, one of our competitors charges $480 for just a single five-user site. A Wikidot Pro-Plus account gives you 30 sites with unlimited users, about $1.00 per site per month.
As a way of saying "thank you" to existing Wikidot users, we're giving a 50% reduction until 1st December. That means you still have three weeks to renew your account at the old prices. You can extend your account for 12 months, or 24 months, or more, and benefit from this special offer.
My advice is to extend or upgrade your account before 1 December, to get the best possible price. But even when the special offer expires, Wikidot.com remains the best deal around.
Thanks for the warning. The new prices seem like a good idea, but they may be a bit steep for normal folks (non-web-developers and non-firms). Then again, Pro accounts probably aren't meant for us anyway.
As I said last time you nudged free users towards paying (http://blog.wikidot.com/blog:community-and-pro/comments/show#post-535054), I hope this is the end of the price-hikes. I got my pro-lite account partly to support wikidot and partly to get rid of the top bar. I put the top bar back (it's actually kind of nice), so I'll probably let my pro account lapse come next year.
Yes, I also like the top bar and put it back on most of my sites. We decided to move prices to what we consider the right level in one go, rather than a series of increases over months. There are no more increases planned, though we will be introducing new account options over time.
The Wikidot Blog | My other works
the title says it all.
…oh, you surely got to be joking. You are the best wiki farm I know, and this action so isn't like the impression I recieved of you these last years. I sure hope, with prices these high, that you never cease your free service.
I am actually thinking about buying a pro lite account (I was before I saw that you doubled the prices), although now it feels like I am kind of forced to it as long as the prices are low. Not a very good feeling, I can assure you.
We will not cease our free service, but will improve it and we want to eventually make it ad-free.
The Wikidot Blog | My other works
That sure is great to hear!
The one thing that really bothers me is the only-5-people-per-private-wiki. I don't make any money by using wikidot, but there may private projects arise - for university, for example, or a game development project - which need to have more than 5 persons and which shouldn't be readable by all the world and his brother.
For any educational project, you can upgrade your wiki yourself, in the site manager.
For game development, I'd encourage open collaboration anyhow.
The Wikidot Blog | My other works
If it's a revenue stream you are looking for I wouldn't follow the herd on this one as its a slippery slope and you could slide down the wrong path quick.
From a wiki perspective, an area with better revenue stream opportunity is through corporate sales. A lot of wiki's will only web host but with Wikidot being open it could be loaded and administered onto any intranet and thus opens the door for paid consulting. Think of the sales pitch….
Q. How much does the software cost…A. Nothing
Q. So you'll charge me for upgrades…A. Nope, not a dime
Q. Requires a lot of training…A. Not really, its so easy a caveman can do it (sorry Geico)
I agree totally, and we think the herd has it wrong. We want to make free wikis as powerful and useful as possible, very much a community of wiki sites, and then target the pro options at people who do not want to see the Wikidot community visible on their sites.
For students, individuals, and not-for-profit groups, being part of a community is perfect. For small businesses and professionals, paying a small amount (and the new prices are still very low), is perfect.
Corporate sales is a great idea, of course, but it's a market well served by products like Confluence and indeed mediawiki. Marketing, sales, and consulting are not what we want to do. We are a wiki farm, and will remain a wiki farm (where 'wiki' grows to include many types of collaborative application) for the foreseeable future.
The Wikidot Blog | My other works
I disagree to the extent it's not as well served as you may believe, especially in very large organizations. Yes there are collaborative software packages but none are deployed with a Wiki farm approach. A company I work for, we deploy 300 to 800 employees on a single development project and with so many individual cogs things like data sharing, co-ordination, organization, structure, etc… is vital. Additionally, I work with 60 suppliers and I can assure you not one has an internal wiki farm approach.
Fair enough, that is a focused business objective and I can't fault anyone for that. If anything I'll support you a 100% because of this statement. But, if anyone is interested in starting a new career here's an opportunity :)
You are right, and we do see enterprise wiki farms as one of the products we'd like to launch, but it is too early: although the business definitely makes sense, it demands a sizeable structure to do sales and support. Selling consultancy is counter-productive when it means taking manpower away from product development.
In our vision of things, Wikidot has another year or so of growth, building better templates and tools for managing larger clusters of sites, and stand alone wiki farms. We experimented with wikidot.org, and decided finally that we needed to concentrate on our core service until we have at least built the product we want to make.
The Wikidot Blog | My other works
Whilst it might seem like a big increase, all of the plans now boil down to approximately one dollar / per site / per month. Which I think everyone one can agree is a fantastic bargain. The trouble is some bigger organisations are going to be wary of something that cheap, so I think the changes make sense, especially since you can always lock in the cheap rates for 5 or 10 years if you are really concerned about the price hike.
Wayne Eddy
Bundaberg, Australia
Agreed :-)
λ James Kanjo | blog | photos | contact
There should be an easier way to do this. Currently, you can only extend your service 12 months at a time.
Even though I wasn't due to renew until December, I renewed back in October while I was thinking about it. I'd be interested in locking in for a few more years at the reduced price, but would prefer not to have to go through the hassle and then explain the multiple line items on my company's credit card. (And it might look kind of fishy to my credit card company). There needs to be an easy way to prolong the service for multiple years.
Also, as a further incentive to lock in for a longer term, it would be nice to see some discounts for multiple year extensions.
Even thought I'm still running a now ancient Open Source version on my own hardware, my future plans are to migrate everything over to Wikidot's servers so I can take advantage of all of the fantastic changes in the last several months. I'm in this for the long haul and am happy to pay a fair price for the service (but won't be sad if I can lock in now at reduced rates!)
-Ed
Free Wikidot Applications · Your Shared Photo Gallery · Your Personal Blog
Yes, you can. Sorry about this (counter-intuitive) limitation in the upgrade panel, but you can put multi-year upgrade in the same "cart", but you can order the upgrade multiple times itself, i.e.
Michał Frąckowiak @ Wikidot Inc.
Visit my blog at michalf.me
I think you mean "but you can't put multi-year upgrade in the same "cart"
I know I can order multiple year extensions one year at a time, but can't you make it easier so I don't end up with multiple transactions on my credit card for the same amount? A quantity field that defaults to "1" would be great. As I said above:
Thanks,
Ed
Free Wikidot Applications · Your Shared Photo Gallery · Your Personal Blog
… for one reason: just want to continue playing with you, funny guys.
and a lot has changed. ( I had my grand children with me) .
I think I will take the opportunity and pay the next 2 years before 1. December…
I understand the target of this change.. after the "educational freeing" this will bring a lot of new users, which again after some time will pay for a little privacy, and there sites will grow in the future…
The educational free sites is the best marketing for future expansion…
Service is my success. My webtips:www.blender.org, www.zusi.de (Demo-Video)
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Well, I knew I wouldn't be able to afford renewing my account when the free one you've given me runs out… so I've turned to adsense to help me pay for some of that. The increased prices make that a little bit harder ;-)
Though I understand completely what you are saying — and your reasoning makes sense. So it's not as if I'm disappointed/annoyed, because in a way this change also has a few advantages for all of us and I can see that.
The best solution would be for me to get another free account somehow… any theme competitions or other competitions coming up with a pro account as the prize? =)
— Shane | Blog | CycloDS Revolution | Compatibility List | Want me to manage your next wiki? | XBL: leiger40
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Yes, we're going to be launching some new competitions.
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I believe that I have an unclaimed free account floating around somewhere.
I feel that I'm getting far too good a deal as a "super guru" to claim it, so I am happy to pass it on.
Wayne Eddy
Bundaberg, Australia
It doesn't make much sense, really. The technological advancement of the world allowed everything to be cheaper: internet connection, site bandwidth, web space, domains, etc. Much of the hosting companies are even lowering prices to compete with one-another. Even porn came from credit-card-only to oh-just-google-it. So when Wikidot increases prices by 100%, the only logical reason is that the company is barely on, or probably below, a positive net income.
I do agree, but only partly however, on one point - that the new prices are the best deal around.
It may be true, if the owner is able to fully utilize most of the pro features. Owning a couple of wikis that has low traffic, for example, is not enough to warrant an annual $50 payment to get rid of ads. Only by having multiple wikis with high traffic can it be worth it. Otherwise, it's better to get cheaper host and slap a wiki engine on it.
this is a forum signature. really.
Wait a second… are you comparing the economics of porn with the economics of Wikidot???
λ James Kanjo | blog | photos | contact
Even if he did, this was only one little sentence among other —um, porn-free (and more logical) ones. Don't play the I-pick-an-irrelevant-of-your-sentences-and-take-offense-game…
I was just teasing =P
λ James Kanjo | blog | photos | contact
The comparison would be relevant if wikis were a mature market, but they're not.
Sorry, could not resist the pun… :-)
The Wikidot Blog | My other works
The cost of technology is falling by 50% every 18 months, this is accurate. We can double the capacity of our infrastructure every 18 months, without spending more on machines and bandwidth.
However the biggest investments we make are in people, and although I keep asking my team to take a 50% pay cut every 18 months, they mutter something about mortgages and feeding the kids, and refuse.
The reason for not just slapping a wiki engine on a cheaper host is that Wikidot provides much more than software. You are paying for a service, and if you manage your own wikis, you know that does not come cheap (or else you do it cheaply, and then suffer the consequences).
Mainly, we want to raise prices because looking at the sales patterns, we think we can, and that the extra income will let us grow the business faster. We're not interested in being cheap, we're interested in being value for money, and that means charging the right price.
We had lots of fun debating this internally. Many of us want Wikidot to be cheaper: $50 is a lot for some people, particularly here in Eastern Europe. But we got rid of the crippleware in the summer. Free accounts are powerful now. Personally I still feel that we're too cheap for business users who depend on their sites for customer support. Any self-hosted option would cost 10x what Wikidot costs, and be significantly more pain to operate.
I expect this to be a long thread, especially when we email all 400,000 users with the good news. :-)
The Wikidot Blog | My other works
Looks like the 400,000th user will sign up on Tuesday or Wednesday.
Should do an article about them in the newsletter, or at least send them PM.
Congratulations you are the 400,000th person to join Wikidot ……..
Wayne Eddy
Bundaberg, Australia
That's a great idea…
The Wikidot Blog | My other works
I can remember - at the start there was a confusion about Dollar or Euro -
but I understand the Dollar-prices are in the "figures" euqal the Euro-prices.
You pay in the currency - where you are living…means Ed Johnson in the USA pays in Dollar the same amount in Dollar as I would do in Euro. ( of course . the Dollars are in their value "cheaper" in my mind).
Pieter - is this correct?
PS: I do not know if visitors outside EU does see another price list…
Service is my success. My webtips:www.blender.org, www.zusi.de (Demo-Video)
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No, Helmuti, it is not the same. I have just paid (by mistake, I hope I can get my money back somehow) as a non EU citizen, and I paid 24,95 dollars. On my CC account, it shows the charge of 17,10 euros. Therefore:
24,95 dollars is 17,10 euros.
EU citizens pay 20,50 euros plus 22%VAT.
17,10 euros is not 20,50 euros.
Therefore, EU citizens pay 3,40 euros more than non EU citizens for Pro-lite account. Until Dec. 1st. Why is that?
Why EU citizens do not pay 17,10 euros plus 22% VAT?
3,40 euros is not much, but in a larger scale, it can be important amount of money. For example, new prices, paying more than just Pro-lite, and for more than one year….
Let us calculate a little bit more. Now here are the new prices.
49,90 dollars is 33,55 euros.
33,55 euros plus 22%VAT is 40,93 euros. Not 49,90 euros.
So, here, EU citizen pays for Pro-Lite 9 euros (13,37 dollars) more than non EU citizen.
239.90 dollars is 161.31 euros.
161.31 euros plus 22%VAT is 196,80 euros. Not. 239.90 euros.
So, here, EU citizen pays for Pro+ 43,10 euros (64,07dollars) more than non-EU citizen.
I dare to say that Wikidot should recalculate their prices in euros.
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell
Be happy, you have to pay in dollar. :)
The reason is how I said:
It is true - the dollar in his value is not strong enough in his currency rate against the Euro.
It can happen in some days if the US Currency will get stronger - you will pay more than an EU citizen in Euro.
But that is fact, that an EU-citizen is bound in the Currency in the EU.
All this is commercial decission and I for my own would not change the pricelist as long as the prices are very near in their figures.
Or wikidot has to change always their price list.
Or wikidot has to show only one currency with all the risks of outrunning currency exchange rates..
But it is simler as it is now.
I for my own would insert a t3. big currency too with fixed prices: the "YEN" !
or a fourth for china - I have no time to check what their currency is.
All the relative stable "lead" currencies to avoid such exchanging rates discussions.
Service is my success. My webtips:www.blender.org, www.zusi.de (Demo-Video)
Wollen Sie Wikidot helfen im deutschen » Handbuch ?
They are not near, Helmuti. They are very different.
The both prices should be the same no matter if they are in dollars or euros. The only thing is that those in Euros have also VAT. Now I will repeat:
49,90 dollars is 33,55 euros. Therefore, the price in euros without VAT should be 33,55 euros. Now we should add VAT for EU citizens and see if we get the price in euros that Wikidot gives us — 49,90 euros.
33,55 euros plus 22%VAT is 40,93 euros. Not 49,90 euros.
So, here, EU citizen pays for Pro-Lite 9 euros (13,37 dollars) more than non EU citizen.
Here's some more calculation.
40,93 plus 22% gives 49,90 euros.
The conclusion is obvious.
Wikidot made a huge mistake in calculating the price in euros for EU citizens.
This is not about me at all. This is about a mistake Wikidot made and the price are paying EU citizens. I think this is very serious matter. The currency rate can vary, but not that much.
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell
@Helmut:
I'm afraid this not true.
Since the wikidot service is based in Poland and since Poland is not a member of the euro area, wikidot invoices could be labeled in Polish Zloty…
Oh no!
:)
Service is my success. My webtips:www.blender.org, www.zusi.de (Demo-Video)
Wollen Sie Wikidot helfen im deutschen » Handbuch ?
I am probably what you would call an "advanced" light user :) My sites aren't meant to have heavy traffic, and the biggest are private. I was happy to support Wikidot with a Pro Lite account, mainly to get the small… very small… increase in private site membership. And even if I didn't need that any longer, I might still have continued to subscribe at that level "just because."
But at $50 per year, that's outside the "here's some money to support you" range, for me. Now, I really have to take a look at value for services rendered.
So, looking at the chart, that $50 per year gets me:
And… that's it. I look at the above and realize that almost none of that matters to me except the private site membership. If I weren't grandfathered with extra sites, I'd still only have 5, even.
I have a hard time justifying this cost for what to me is very limited benefit. Like I said, I'd pay $25 for moral support. But at $50, you're a business to me now. I think you really need to increase the value proposition of these Pro accounts or I think you will lose money rather than gain it. I know that I wouldn't have even considered subscribing when I did had you been charging $50.
This is a "rope people in" level — $25 is in that range, $50, I think, is out. Alternatively perhaps you could charge ala carte at the free level for some limited increases.
Perhaps this is where we need to be. I'm pushing, over time, to make Wikidot look like two things:
You can see that we're being quite systematic about this: you pay to escape the community 'obligations' and get something that looks more and more like hosting. The more you pay, the less your visitors see "Wikidot" on your sites.
My goal is to deliver a really good free service eventually without ads, and to use that to build a strong community of projects, users, and knowledge. To do that, we need to charge professional users more, and we know this will result in some people moving back to a free service instead of the Pro-lite option.
And for professional users, Wikidot provides excellent value for money: it is not possible to get this level of functionality and reliability any other way. And it's not just the service and software, but access to that vast and growing community.
There is no "roping in" because when you use the free service, you contribute to Wikidot just as when you pay for an account. As CEO of Wikidot I'm actually happier to see a new free site with the Wikdot toolbar, than a pro-lite account.
For example: the Snow Leopard site that crashed Wikidot during the summer was a free site, but it was very good for us. We had to improve our infrastructure, we got good publicity, new users, and lively discussion. That is worth a lot more than $25.
That is the idea. We'll see if it works… :-)
The Wikidot Blog | My other works
The one hitch in your plans as it relates to me is the issue of private sites. I have one that is over 5 but under 10. Going back to free means dumping one or more, paying a lot of money for fairly little incremental service, or deciding not to use Wikidot at all for that purpose and finding something different to use.
To me, the pricing of Pro Lite is out of sorts with the value of the added features. If you'd rather have people use a free site rather than Pro Lite, I guess I'd have to ask, then why offer it at all? Simply do some sort of ala carte offering on top of free for some limited service. The only ones you would really need to offer are:
Yes, it might work to offer some a la carte extensions on top of free sites. We'll look at this later, thanks for the suggestion.
The Wikidot Blog | My other works
Another point I just realized is that one has to be careful about defining "Professional". If it's about the ability of a site to be monetized for the user, and/or brand themselves independent of Wikidot, that's one thing that charging high fees is rightly for.
But right now the Pro levels not only do that, but enable "larger sites" (private or otherwise). That is what some individuals and large, free community sites will run into. Now, I don't mind paying to cover a heavier usage than a standard user, but those have to be reasonable for that usage.
This segmentation has taken time to refine and understand properly. Initially, we wanted to charge more for features and slots, which is what most service providers do, but that does not work for various reasons.
Today, the division that seems to make most sense is shared (community of Wikidot-branded sites that support each other) vs. selfish (own-branding, preferential service) use of Wikidot. In that light, all limits on sites and membership should be removed and this is where I'd like to end up.
The Wikidot Blog | My other works
That's good to hear… but the question for me right now is whether to resub at Pro Lite with the discount just in case that isn't sorted out by April :)
Helmuti pointed out, in another forum, that the limit on members of your private sites can be extended with the "extra access" option - basically you can let others read the site, but not edit it, and not have to be members. This may help you.
Private sites are just a bit delicate because they get easily abused for illegal purposes and they are by definition much more work to police. One idea I had was to lift limits on members but drastically cut back allowed file space.
The Wikidot Blog | My other works
@whoever might care…
I don't want to get in the middle of the argument of those i think of as "wiki gods" but as a normal user who don't have developer back ground… I am all for ala carte additions. The only reason I am going to renew my pro acct is to keep my private administration team site which has 16 members for my gaming site. If I could easily have extra people slots for a nominal fee.. I would buy it in a second instead of spending all my money on features I probably wont ever use that are meant for larger businesses. Extra people slots and a bit more space is all I really need over the lite options.
On a personal note:
Reading this thread makes me feel like my parents are fighting again… it hurts to see ya'll fighting when normally you laugh so much with each other. I hope this mess gets settled and our super gurus make up. We the normal users really do need everyone of you to help us bring out the greatness in our sites and the community with your enthusiasm and assistance.
my 2 cents for what its worth.
………… Apple ………… Email Me
after my initial post and after thinking about this for some time, i guess this is a good thing for wikidot because the goods out-way the cons
pros
cons
*
A 100% increase? I dont care how you compare this service to others, one does not hike an existing price for existing paying customers by 100% and not expect to get some flak for it. I don't like it, the increase is too extreme and that's not a good way to retain loyalty, be careful you are not so concerned for the impression of non pro users getting more money from existing paying customers that you piss them off too much, retention is just as important as expansion. Small increases are acceptable but doubling the fee can be seen as a slap in the face for those that are already pro users and looking to renew, big moves like this are also seen as a warning sign, steady as she goes keeps the boat afloat making minor adjustments here and there including price adjustments, that's an indicator that all is well, drastic course changes… a sign of trouble ahead.
As a way of saying "thank you" to existing Wikidot users, we're giving a 50% reduction until 1st December.
I don't see this as a "thank you", I see this as a "pay now, earlier than you planned unless you want to pay double in a couple weeks….gee thanks for the "thank you", not the thank you I would have expected, pressure to pay now. Do you really want to thank me? If so the then grandfather me in, but if you did that then you wouldn't get money from where you are really looking for it.. existing paying customers. I have referred you to lots of friends, some of the are pro now, one is (was) about to go pro, I don't like your way of saying "thanks".
Yes, I'm pissed.
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Two things Whane:
Pieter already explained this:
“ We decided to move prices to what we consider the right level in one go, rather than a series of increases over months. There are no more increases planned, though we will be introducing new account options over time.”
This means that they've brought the future here now, instead of delaying the “optimum price”. Remember, Wikidot is only 3 years old. The paying model of Wikidot has not been around for even a year! If we had been paying Wikidot for their services for 3 years at those prices, then it would be fair to gradually increase prices.
But this is NOT the case. It doesn't make sense to gradually increase prices just to suit the 520 paying customers we already have. What does make sense, however, is to offer the 520 customers a bonus option to pay at the current rates before they increase.
It IS a “thank you”. It's saying “thanks” for your loyalty to Wikidot whilst it was in its infancy, and if it weren't for our support this whole time, Wikidot wouldn't be self-sufficient or profitable today. So whilst the prices have increased to competitive levels, they're still offering the original cheaper prices for the existing Wikidot members who supported Wikidot in the first place.
λ James Kanjo | blog | photos | contact
I hear you. What can I say, except we'll make it even more worthwhile than it is today.
The decision to raise prices in one step was mine, I'm solely responsible and will accept all the flack, even when it's unpleasant. That's my job. It's also my job to make Wikidot.com work, which means turning user benefit into funding for growth. It is a necessary thing and there is no nice way to do this.
Every time we've adapted Wikidot's business model, people have complained, often bitterly, that we are… whatever… insert as many adjectives as you like. Ads, toolbar, etc. These are always the longest threads.
But over time it's become clear that we are serious, and doing the right thing, and making a service and product that will work really well, deliver significant value, and do it at a price that remains way below any alternative.
I will not apologize for doing whatever is required to make sure Wikidot.com survives, grows, and is a successful service. Trying to make people happy at the cost of our long term stability would really be a sign of trouble ahead. The day you see me make a decision that damages Wikidot in order to please someone, you should be pissed.
Yes, the "50% off" is a slightly mischievous phrasing but we could also just have raised prices overnight, as any other business would do, knowing that many pro users were about to renew their accounts. Instead we've given you the chance to extend for as long as you like. It is new users who will pay the new prices.
And if you really do not want to pay, that's fine. The free Wikidot service is unbeatable: no limits on bandwidth or visitors, and with the same reliability as the pro service. And of course, access to the most important benefit of all, the community and the knowledge and works of the community.
Whane, I appreciate the feedback.
The Wikidot Blog | My other works
I would like to think that I have the metal to say what others might wish to say, though I'm certain not everyone shares my views. Sometimes it takes an unpleasant voice to get a point across. Not too long ago Digg banned Wikidot and all her subs from their site, I caused a stir over that and even bugged the acting CEO of Digg until eventually they did what they said they would not do; they reversed their decision. I did not bring Digg a pleasant voice, yet I think it pleased others. Hell, I don't even use Digg to promote my sites, they just pissed me off.
Why so black and white? There are nicer ways of doing it. Are you saying that wikidot cannot survive without doubling fees now? There are no other choices? You know that all those with domains using wikidot as a host are locked in or forced to move to another host. Seems this is a gamble, gentler kinder methods would increase odds. Retention is good business practice, those of us that have paid are more than likely pleased with the service to pay again, that's something you could count on I think right… something like at least an 80% retention rate (just guessing here)… what is the forecasted retention rate with the increase? Will that retention rate be lower and if so then will the increase in cost offset those losses? Is the business more secure with say 80% retention and good publicity or 60% retention paying double and bad publicity?
I don't think anyone can really complain much about the wikidot free or pro service. Today, its not the lack of service, its the way its presented… same service… double the costs. Suggestions appear, sure, most of us want to see improvements, I have enjoyed them and use them quite often myself. If I did not like the service or features I would be here and I would not recommend wikidot, it is one of very few websites that I recommend to others face to face and I'm in an industry that is online alot, I even suggested wikidot to the company I work for… they now have a pro account too (
Enlarge Media)… they in turn recommend wikidot to clients.
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Hi James,
Wonderful rhetoric. I prefer to look at it for what it actually is, not "the future here now", but a 100% increase over night.
Please please don't do that. I clearly said I don't see this as a "thank you". That is me expressing my opinion, do not tell me that my opinion is false and don't try to convince me that your different opinion is fact. You have your opinion, I have mine, yours does not change mine. Bottom line, I'm now pressured into paying within the next 2 weeks to extend my premium services under the threat of paying double that rate if I wait until after 2 weeks, it is a type of controlling move not uncommon in business, and also not very welcome. Give me until my renewal date to do it; that is a thank you. Give me two weeks to do it; that is pressure sales.
And have you been to sales page? Note that it reads: Special offer: upgrade or extend your account before 1 December 2009 and save 50%!! Anyone can join now, and upgrade having never heard of wikidot and get the same "thank you" offered to you.
Don't confuse the 50% off sale for the next 2 weeks as something that is permament for all us vets. Or do you wish to confuse other readers?
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I get insulted when people don't read my posts properly:
This is why I used the term “ORIGINAL CHEAPER PRICES”, where the word “original” means the prices of origin, aka, the first prices introduced.
But everything else you said is perfectly valid, and I certainly understand your point of view.
λ James Kanjo | blog | photos | contact
The conversation that Pieter and I had above made a lot of sense… however, after reading some of the other replies here, I think there is a mistake being made.
The intent I read from Pieter is to switch to a model where "Professional" means "self-branding". In this light, perhaps a price increase is warranted.
However, that's not currently the case, nor will it be the case when the prices go up. "Professional" will still be defined as a resource expansion, and if/when that will change to the other model is unknown. So, people who are using more resources than they can get for free are looking at a big price increase even though the usage of the site is not revenue-generating for themselves.
It seems to me that it would be an easier "sell" to current paying members if the price increase and the professional model were to change at once. That way, we have something to go on as to whether we should resub at the current price, or pay the a la carte prices (or get it for free even) in the future.
So, I'd say that Wikidot should hold off the price increase until they have the whole new picture laid out.
You could assume responsibility for you own lack of communication.. or you can blame me.
You are still missing my point… look again at your original statement:
You are giving two false impressions here. 1) The impression that the pre 50% off prices apply to past paying members only. This is not true, any new guy off the street can create a new wikidot account before Dec 1st and get the same deal as an existing Wikidot member. 2) The impression that this original cheaper prices is available to us in general… you did not mention that the original cheaper prices is only available for about 2 weeks.
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Ahh, but you see, I am perfect and can never make a mistake. Therefore, it can only be your inability to comprehend articulate sentences which caused your nonsense outburst.
Why would I need to say these things? It has been made clear in the official Wikidot blog post we are commenting on at this very moment. Why should somebody read what I have written and accept my “implications” over the official Wikidot explanation?
These questions are, of course, rhetoric. The answer to these questions is simply “WTF are you talking to me like this for? I'm not the one who changed the fucken prices!”
λ James Kanjo | blog | photos | contact
Guys, guys… :-)
Whane, please direct your unhappiness to me, not to fellow Wikidot users. There is only one official voice on this blog, and that's mine (with very occasional interventions from Michal when he feels it's necessary).
As to treating existing users preferentially? Seriously… no business does that. It's new users who get the special offers. We were already generous in offering all exiting users an extension at the old prices, and telling them about it in time.
The Wikidot Blog | My other works
My apologies, I was under the impression that James replied to my post and that I was free to reply back, apparently I am mistaken. I will aspire to adhere to these special rules as they apply to me.
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There are no special rules for you, Whane, but you are mixing complaints about the Wikidot service - which you should address to me - with complaints about what other people said, or how they interpreted your comments - which are off-topic entirely.
The Wikidot Blog | My other works
Off topic eh? ;)
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Both James and Whane had the opportunity to prevent this minor argument from occurring at all, yet neither of you did so. We've got to keep in mind that this is a text-only medium. It is very easy to misinterpret someone else's post, especially if it is directed at you (if names are mentioned… people tend to go on the defensive and subconsciously look for negative interpretations only)
edit: I just realised I broke my own rule and singled out two users here. Note that I'm not trying to provoke an argument…but settle this one. Please don't misinterpret what I'm trying to say ;-)
— Shane | Blog | CycloDS Revolution | Compatibility List | Want me to manage your next wiki? | XBL: leiger40
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It is true. I could have easily stopped it from occurring by withholding my sharp mouth.
λ James Kanjo | blog | photos | contact
Good defense, James!
Defence is the British spelling of the word… in Australia we usually spell things the british way
λ James Kanjo | blog | photos | contact
James, I know. Not all Belgians are idiots.
License, licence (latin word), apologize, aplogise; color, colour.
Writer's choice!
Sorry! I thought you were targeting my spelling by italicising the word “defense”
λ James Kanjo | blog | photos | contact
No James, I was joking about your hidden comments… I like mystery.
Hidden comments? What are you talking about?
λ James Kanjo | blog | photos | contact
All people - watching this page/cat/site get an email with your first post.
An dthis source text we can read - we can read the "commented out" source too…..
Service is my success. My webtips:www.blender.org, www.zusi.de (Demo-Video)
Wollen Sie Wikidot helfen im deutschen » Handbuch ?
It was a joke Helmuti! I was pretending I didn't know what he was talking about ;-)
Shush Helmuti !!! You're revealing too many secrets to the public!!!
λ James Kanjo | blog | photos | contact
In a lot of ways the increased storage limits announced recently make a lot of the above discussion moot.
For most people (except perhaps those wanting to create non-education private sites with unlimited users) the new "pro plan" is better than the old "pro plus plan" and the new "pro lite" plan is pretty much equivalent to the old "pro plan".
In hindsight a better way of doing it would have been to announce that the "pro lite" plan was going to be abandoned in the future but that existing users could lock it in as long as they wanted to prior to December 2009, and that a new super pro plus plan was being introduced with 100GB of storage.
I know that isn't quite correct (trivial little issues like hiding karma complicate the picture), but I find it very hard to feel hard done by when I am getting such a good deal from Wikidot.
Wayne Eddy
Bundaberg, Australia
This price change will result in greater profits in the short term, but I believe it will produce lower earnings for WikiDot by 2012. Take me for example, a dedicated WikiDot user, I was happy with the old price structure but now am investigating using GoogleDocs and other options instead.
Please stop this thread. I am a user of wikidot, but I pay nothing :-)… No ca$h I mean. I give input on fora, think along for "how to make things better". I find it very sad to read all this.
Everybody here knows that communicating via forum or email is not the same as in real life. There is no body language, no intonation (except SCREAMING) and it can take more than a day before you get feedback. So you know that discussing something here will lead to bad communication and misunderstandings.
Furthermore, we live in a capilistic system, Not that I am 100% happy with that but, in this system you need to have respect for people that risk beeing an entrepreneur with hopefully some gain in sight. As long as they treat users like us in a good way (No pressure to consume and all your personal freedom), you should follow their path.
If you think you were mistreated… you should be able to leave. If you think you can do it better, you should be able to try it yourself. But as long as wikidot gives me the opportunity to make websites for free on their server, I have respect for their wishes.
I was mad at the time when the banner appeared… they made it better… now it's okay for me… there are limits and IMO wikidot is staying in between the limits.
And yes this is my oppinion… but "I will only say this once". I hear pro I hear contra in this thread. No need to trow so much mud. It is not the one that speaks as last one that get's heard… it's the one with the best arguments. So please, the protest is noted, let's close this thread
delete
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell
I tried to pay by VISA Virtuon card and I failed. There were error message that payment is "high risk".
Could you call your credit card provider and ask them to explain? There will be some flag in their database, either with Wikidot.com or (more likely) with an intermediate. If we know the reason why your CC provider is refusing the payment, we may be able to change something here.
It's not something our accounting department can solve, we have no influence with, indeed no contact with, your credit card providers. But if we know that one of the intermediates we deal with has been flagged, we can change to another.
Thanks.
The Wikidot Blog | My other works
Will everyone please calm down and let this thread die?
Complaints about the pricing of services should be done over email to moc.todikiw|selas#moc.todikiw|selas — does that email address exist?
Blog posts that are almost two weeks old shouldn't be commented on. Move onto a tuesday rant instead if you wish — but stop bringing up such an old thread.
Every time I see this email subject in my inbox, I feel like going into my settings and unsubscribing from the blog, community, projects forum, and any other community-related endeavour, and just taking a back-seat. It is giving me a two-week-long headache.
edit: This post is not directed at any one user, but at everyone who got involved in this discussion… including myself. I regret ever posting on this page.
— Shane | Blog | CycloDS Revolution | Compatibility List | Want me to manage your next wiki? | XBL: leiger40
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