Today we published a new module that lets you put CSS styling onto any page. This is a very powerful tool, because it gives users control over the look and feel of their pages, which was previously an admin function. It also lets package creators mix CSS and CSI (cross site includes) so for example, pulling in a particular CSI package will automatically pull in the right styling.
But there is possibility for abuse here. Hiding menus and actions, changing the carefully-designed layout of a site. What do you think? Useful tool, or dangerous freedom?
definitely a very NICE tool, but maybe there should be a way for admins to disable it on a category bases?
I agree. And as for your question pieter, "with great power comes great great responsibility"; so I'd have to say that it is both a useful tool and a dangerous freedom.
EDIT: I proposed a weneed with your suggestion rhombus.
I'm sorry, but that is a stupid idea. If you are a Site Administrator, and you don't want custom CSS used on a page, then moderate that page (i.e. [[module CSS disable="true"]])
I wouldn't want to do that on every page, though. I agree with rhombus p. There should be a way to disable it. Maybe have a default, and if you want to have custom CSS on some page, allow it.
It's not that stupid James: surely a member of your site could just remove that disable="true" argument, change the CSS and cause problems.
Rob Elliott - Strathpeffer, Scotland - Wikidot first line support & community admin team.
You're all stupid! You are all of the incorrect frame of mind. All three of you!
Clearly, if a member of your site keeps undoing your overide of disable="true", then you ought to:
It could not be simpler. It is no different to how we deal with spamming.
Self moderated post for WCPG compliance. :-)
How arrogant James. I know you crossed it out but why didn't you delete it? I am rather offended by the fact that you think we are stupid. I think you should apologise.
Yes, it will be very useful indeed in CSIs but in a few cases of local community sites I am developing, once I've handed it over I might not have much or any control over it andI don't like the idea of giving users the potential to change a design that I had spent time and effort on. Yes whoever administers the site thereafter could change it back, ban rogue users and so on, that's just normal management. It's the fact that the capability is there and seems not to be configurable that is slightly worrying for me. Of course none of that might ever happen and this is all hypothetical.
Rob Elliott - Strathpeffer, Scotland - Wikidot first line support & community admin team.
I do apologise, I only thought that your opinion was stupid. I still do, for the reasons I stated above.
Well that's no apology because you qualified it with another offensive statement. I hope I would never be so arrogant as to call someone else's opinion stupid. One person's opinion is as valid as another's. You might not agree with it but it is nevertheless valid.
Rob Elliott - Strathpeffer, Scotland - Wikidot first line support & community admin team.
James, I crossed out your adjective once, please do not make me invoke the WCPG in force. Section 3.1 applies here though I'm sure you did not intend that.
Rob, let's not assume arrogance when there are other, more friendly explanations. Some expressions simply do not travel well in comments.
Portfolio
:) OK
Rob Elliott - Strathpeffer, Scotland - Wikidot first line support & community admin team.
Okay, now I know the level of tolerance on the blog, and the boundaries that aren't to be crossed.
This is a great tool, but there should probably be a safeguard since it becomes too easy to destroy a site.
I destroyed this page completely and utterly (/edit/true even fails) with 41 characters.
EDIT: Actually, /norender/true works.
Timothy Foster - @tfAuroratide
Auroratide.com - Go here if you're nerdy like me
I'm thrilled that a module I suggested ought to exist has been created :)
I can't wait to get my hands on this tonight…
Where is this in the weneeds list? Where is this in the roadmap? Nowhere as far as I can see.
I think there are more important things in the weneeds and roadmap that the developers should have been concentrating on instead of this. I'm not convinced it is adding much, but it is potentially opening up all sort of problems for site owners.
Come on, let's see some movement on things in the weneed list and roadmap. Some of us have committed hard cash and what have we got so far? My original reaction was "bugger all". Ok, we got the increase above 30 characters for the site name but you haven't yet worked out a way for us to pay for it! But apart from that I'm not really impressed with the progress on weneeds and particularly the roadmap which seems to have been a complete waste of time.
Rob Elliott - Strathpeffer, Scotland - Wikidot first line support & community admin team.
I actually agree with you about the unimportance of this module. It does seem hyped up, and I find that I have been carried away with limited possibilities of it. This does not actually help me out, besides its possible combination with the cross site includes, which I haven't had the need to test out yet.
This module seems to be taking up more time than its worth, compared to what else can be worked on instead.
Sorry but you need to explain why we would want to do this.Some of us spend a lot of time and effort designing pages, only for the user then to trash it?
Rob Elliott - Strathpeffer, Scotland - Wikidot first line support & community admin team.
This could be a useful module… but to be honest I've forgotten what the original use-cases were. Can anyone provide an example of something that can be done now, that couldn't be done before?
Thanks.
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I don't think this will be a module that I will get a lot of use out of, except perhaps as a way of learning more about CSS design. I'm not particularly worried about users accidentally or intentionally breaking one of my pages with it - I'd be quite surprised if too many of my users will be aware of or care about the module. On the whole I think I'm in the "there are a lot of other potential improvements that are much more important" camp.
Having said all that, it is still very nice to see the steady flow of new modules and innovations that the Wikidot team have been churning out in recent times. Keep up the good work guys.
Wayne Eddy
Melbourne, Australia
LGAM Knowledge Base
Contact via Google+
Apologies, my earlier post was a bit of a knee-jerk over-reaction and I should have waited 12 hours before posting. I have thought about this over night and while. I am worried about the potential for damage and am not sure about allowing a user to change a carefully thought out design, I can see that there are real benefits to be had using this in CSIs.
Rob Elliott - Strathpeffer, Scotland - Wikidot first line support & community admin team.
Yes in combination with CSI this is a blessing… And there is also a difference between users and contributers (people that can edit pages). If you cannot trust your contributers, then there is something wrong with your community-site.
I do agree that maybe in a forum, a place where anyone can contribute, this should be disabled. Alhough a link like this could be fun.
[[module css]]
.link a:hover{font-size:200%}
[[/module]]
ah… you see harmless in a forum (style comments per page) :-(
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I can understand the reaction, but this module is essential for CSI packages and is part of the application framework aspect on the roadmap. We need ways to deliver CSS code together with the CSI code. For example, the navigator package can provide the needed CSS rather than telling users, "customize your CSS to make it work with this package". (I'm still waiting for code blocks to resolve includes properly, and then we can finally construct themes out of blocks.)
Other use cases are mainly packages that explicitly provide CSS functionality, and I'll make some examples such as a "Add a logo to your site" package.
To be frank, we made this package now because it was easy to do and we wanted to get it out of the way before starting on private categories.
With respect to people destroying site layouts, it sounds like a potential problem but when I've worked it through, it seems to not be: the worst anyone can do is mess up the pages they are allowed to edit, and this we already manage with notifications, history, banning, etc.
Portfolio
All idiots ?
Atlassian's Confluence wiki also has such kind of feature:
http://www.adaptavist.com/display/AtlassianConfluence/style+macro
gerdami - Visit Handbook en Français - Rate this howto:import-simple-excel-tables-into-wikidot up!
Seems pretty cool. I've used it already, especially for quick css testing. This seems like a great, direct way to collaborate with other users on CSS questions.
For most wikis, this module is probably way beneath the radar of most of its users. For ours, it would be pretty easy to manage its use/abuse.
For larger, busier wikis, I can see how it might cause problems in diagnosing CSS issues. If a page has lots of code, the module could be anywhere. It's not immediately obvious that it's there. Even more confusing would be if the CSS were tucked into _template, for the category or the default.
This genie is now out of its bottle. If it becomes a problem, maybe a good diagnostic tool would be some sort of search function that detects modules.
That's an interesting comment. How would you see that working?
Rob Elliott - Strathpeffer, Scotland - Wikidot first line support & community admin team.
If someone askes a question regarding CSS… you can make an example on the page regardless of the css that belongs to that page… For example in the community-site. If I answer a question I can make a custom css for the page in wich I am answering, regardless of the css from the community site… That's collaborating… working together. Things like pseudo elements can not be set inline so… this module is warmly welcomed by me.
A - S I M P L E - P L A N by ARTiZEN a startingpoint for simple wikidot solutions.
Thanks for that Steven. This aspect of the module had completely escaped me initially, but I'll give it a go as it could be very useful for support as you've shown.
Rob Elliott - Strathpeffer, Scotland - Wikidot first line support & community admin team.